Digital Works Podcast
Talking about all the different things that 'digital' means in the arts, culture and heritage sectors. Tales of success and failure, interrogating the shiny new things and looking at what works (or not) and why, Interviews with digital folks working across the sector and beyond, in-house, consultants, funders, and more.
Join us at the first Digital Works Conference in Leeds, UK on the 24th-25th April 2024.
Digital Works Podcast
Episode 051 - Ash & Katie, Bytes #10 - reflecting on key themes at this year's Digital Works Conference - asking the right questions, understanding audiences, focusing on accessibility, and learning from other sectors
The tenth in our new series, Bytes, where Ash and Katie usually discuss 3 (or 4) things from the latest Digital Works Newsletter but in this episode are looking back at the first Digital Works Conference.
Ash and Katie identify a few themes and takesaways that are applicable to all cultural organisations, regardless of size:
- Prioritising questions, imagination, and people over technology and assumptions
- Building stronger, more direct relationships with your audience
- How inclusion and accessibility benefits everyone
- And last but not least that there is lots to learn from other sectors
Hello and welcome to the Digital Works podcast, the podcast about digital stuff in the cultural sector. My name's Ash and today's episode is episode 10 of Bytes. Bytes is our regular short form series where we look at three or four interesting things from the most recent edition of our Digital Works newsletter. But today we are instead going to look at three or four interesting things from our recent 2024 Digital Works conference. You can catch up with recordings from the conference on our website, which you can find at thedigitalworks. And joining me today and for all episodes in this series is the person who puts the Digital Works newsletter together and who moderated a session at the conference, my colleague Katie. Hi, katie.
Speaker 2:Hi hello.
Speaker 1:So we are breaking our format a little bit today. I thought we could reflect on three or four key themes or takeaways from the conference which might be more broadly applicable to other cultural organisations. Listening to this, and just a reminder that the conference took place in April 2024 at the Leeds City Museum and we are going to pepper our episode today with some audio clips from relevant sessions that we think illustrate some of the points we are going to be talking about, think illustrate some of the points we are going to be talking about. So our four themes are that questions, imagination and people should be your priority over technology and assumptions. The second one is that cultural organisations should be looking to build direct relationships with their audience. The third is around the importance of inclusion and accessibility, which will benefit everyone. And lastly, was the theme and feedback. We've heard from lots of people who are at the conference that there is loads for us to learn from other sectors.
Speaker 1:Okay, so our first theme, this idea that questions, imagination and people should be prioritized over technology and assumptions was something that it felt like it came out of the opening and closing keynotes on day one.
Speaker 1:So those were sessions from Carty Price previously has appeared on this podcast, Head of Experience in Digital at the Victoria and Albert Museum, and Seb Chan has also been a guest on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Seb is CEO and Director at Acme in Melbourne, and it felt like both of those sessions looked at something that both you and I, Katie, have talked about in the past, and that's that you arrive at the most useful and impactful uses of digital by asking the best questions and sort of going into those conversations with a fairly open mindset rather than having a predetermined outcome or running towards trying to use a particular piece of technology.
Speaker 1:And carty talked about the last decade at the vna and she framed that session through the types of questions that they had been asking at the V&A. So questions like how can we help Gen Alpha connect with 5,000 years of creativity? And then Seb's keynote was looking at the importance of imagination when it comes to digital thinking and particularly digital leadership, and the importance of not just getting stuck in the sort of operational detail of how something should work, actually trying to be creative and imaginative about where digital may be heading and therefore making the best choices around that. What do you think other organisations can maybe take from that when it comes to digital strategy when it comes to sort of day-to-day conversations about digital.
Speaker 2:I think this point about asking the right questions is one of those things that is both completely obvious but also unfortunately, not always the starting point for people, and I'm not really sure why. That is because we're not in the sort of early infancy of digital, but still there can be a tendency for organizations to think about digital in more of a sort of platform first approach. You know organizations like the V&A and ACME. Sometimes people say it's okay for them, they are big, they have lots of budgets, but actually what this demonstrates what Carty's talk demonstrated and Seb's is that it's completely applicable to whatever size of organization you are, which is just about being very considered why are you doing this thing, who is it for and do you know whether they want this thing or whatever it is? Asking questions should be the kind of first starting point for everything really, in terms of particularly if you're going to start spending money on building things, but also actually just even thinking about things like digital communications and which channels you're on and how you're using them and you know again, who is this for and what value are we adding here? Just really simple but important questions, and I think Seb's point about the sort of imagination thing I think was very interesting because he has a sort of fairly unique viewpoint on all of this, of course, because his you know, as you sort of said there, you know he's someone who's worked in sort of digital and technology for you know most of his career, and now he heads up Acme, and so he, you know he's a sort of a and technology for you know most of his career, and now he heads up ACME, and so he, you know, he's a sort of a leader who really understands how to sort of, you know, leverage digital and so on.
Speaker 2:And I think one of the things that was interesting for me about you know, he said lots of interesting things, but when he was talking about the digital imagination thing and he was sort of saying, you know, one of the things that is really self-apparent in arts and culture is it's not that people aren't imaginative, they're very imaginative but their situations, their work situations, don't give them the time or the space to be imaginative. Takeaway it's how do you create the conditions within your organization that people have the time to think about these things in a considered way? And I say that I know, as I'm saying it, that it's difficult because everybody's so busy and everybody's so focused on just getting through stuff. But we have to be wary of the being busy for business sake thing, and you know, that's where I think those two things link, don't they? Asking the right questions, but having the time and space to be able to do that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and here's a clip from Carty's keynote where she talks a bit more about that idea.
Speaker 3:Questions are really powerful, and they're asked when people are able to think freely and expansively, and so I'd encourage you all to think about your role in creating and nurturing cultures where these questions are asked.
Speaker 1:So our next theme was this idea that really cultural organizations should be trying to build direct relationships with their audience. And you know our session was looking at digital activity. So in this context we're talking about digital audiences and a number of sessions, including Alec John's keynote on the morning of day one, but also we had a panel session on digital audiences. We had a panel session on the value of editorial content. All of these conversations really identified the importance of organisations in a very specific way understanding who their audience was, what that audience wanted from them and how that audience wanted that thing to be delivered to them.
Speaker 1:You know, very much the opposite of, perhaps, the old digital mindset about trying to reach as many people as possible. It's all about scale. Actually, these conversations seem to say it was more about deep conversations with a smaller number of people, and Alex Ayling from the Lego group had a really nice quote which was be niche, be authentic and be driven by your values, which feels like something that any cultural organization could use as a set of guiding principles. But, katie, what's your observation on this idea of direct relationships with digital audiences?
Speaker 2:yes, it's fascinating and Aled from FT. His keynote was really brilliant and it's quite interesting having someone like that at a conference where the attendees are sort of arts and culture people, because obviously he's coming from a sector that's completely different media talking about how the FT moved from being a kind of printed newspaper to being a completely digital first organization Genuinely fascinating. Again, I think there was a lot in his talk about being really clear on priorities. Obviously they use this kind of North Star methodology and that's probably for another day. I think, to your point, what the FT really have managed to do incredibly well again is really understand what do our audiences want and how do we best deliver that to them.
Speaker 2:Of course, in terms of media, especially written media, substack has and is proving that case around niche audiences and if you can create content of any kind that speaks to a particular audience, it will work. Yes, it takes time and effort. Of course it does, and you have to really put the work in, but for sure I think there are so many instances now where you can see that working. I mean people like the National Gallery. Actually, their use of social media on threads is a particularly brilliant example of sort of really it's that intersection between what the National Gallery are, what their values are, coming back to the point about sort of being values-driven but also just really understanding the audiences and where they can kind of bring interest and so on.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think again, maybe some of this comes down to time people having the time and the space to really think about these things. I think the other thing I would say from an arts and culture perspective is, historically, I think one problem we have had as a sector around content is we can be very, very focused on content from a marketing perspective but less from a sort of editorial perspective, and I understand why that is. But I think it would be of huge benefit to arts and cultural organizations to start to think a bit more, if they're not already, about this kind of editorial approach and delivering value, I guess, for audiences who are going to be interested in what you have to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, but you know, it's a simple idea, that's not always simple to execute. Here's Alex Ayling from the Lego Group talking a bit more about that idea.
Speaker 4:I'm so excited to be sharing the stage with Nick because I think it's, for me, the perfect expression of what I've always said the digital strategy should be which is, be niche, be authentic and be driven by your values and by a purpose. And actually those are all three things. They're all words I was about to say and then you've already said them, but I think that's kind of where we cross over with the Lego group as well. Right, it's about because if you find a niche, the worst thing on the internet is to try and please everybody and try and please all the people, because then you end up pleasing nobody. So it's all about understanding who your audience is and then trying to find something that's authentic to yourself, that you're allowed to talk about, that you've got authority to talk about and that is relevant to them.
Speaker 1:And if you do that and you find your people and give them something like in that value exchange we've been talking about, that's when they're going to keep coming back and that's when they're going to build loyalty and affinity so the next theme that came through a number of sessions shiny dander's opening keynote on day two, conversations about ux, conversations about behavioral psychology was this idea that, when it comes to digital experiences and, more broadly, taking an approach that prioritises inclusion and access actually benefits everyone.
Speaker 1:And I thought Sharni's opening keynote was really you know it was a really brilliant session. I thought it was very thought-provoking, inspiring and, you know, challenging at points. She said something that really seemed to resonate with a lot of people and that was that disability is what we do to one another and lots of cultural organizations take the social model of disability as the starting point for their access work. But it was really powerful the way that Shani framed that and also framing the sort of universal benefits of really focusing on accessibility. She highlighted a number of inventions that actually came out of being solutions, had specific needs but now are used by large swathes of the population. And certainly in our work at Substract we've seen the benefits of taking a sort of inclusion and access first approach to digital products and experiences. But, katie, what do you sort of think that the takeaway there was?
Speaker 2:I mean Sharni's talk was fantastic. She's so engaging and just an absolutely brilliant speaker. Yeah, I mean, sharni's talk was fantastic. She's so engaging and just an absolutely brilliant speaker. Yeah, I mean, obviously, as you say, you know, one of the things we talk about a lot is substrates, is that kind of usability and accessibility are sort of near synonymous terms. If you make something more accessible, you will inherently make it more usable for people. Again, I think sometimes the arts and culture sector can get a bit tangled up in thinking about, particularly with websites, how do we make the most exciting whiz-bang website possible. And that's fine and that's good and that's admirable, to want to make a website that's visually engaging and all of those things. But sometimes I think that can be at the detriment to sort of usability and, obviously, accessibility as well. So I would just sort of make that point that Sharni made, really, which was that in the end, if you are thinking about usability in your digital work, then you will inherently just make it a better experience for everyone.
Speaker 1:And here is a clip from Sharni's keynote that we've just been talking about.
Speaker 5:A computer keyboard used to be a typewriter. A typewriter was created for a blind lady to write love letters. How cute is that. We saw dropped curbs come into design and infrastructure after World War II, when people were coming back from the war injured and in wheelchairs, so that's when we saw the introduction of that. But, like, who doesn't love a dropped curb? Whether you're pushing a pushchair, you've got luggage, everybody uses it. Captions and subtitles obviously were created for the deaf and hard of hearing community. But who doesn't watch TV or Netflix now with captions on the ability to text the emergency services, again for the deaf community. And audiobooks like. I've had my Audible subscription for like eight years but I can read books. But audiobooks were originally created for the blind and low vision community and a bendable straw that was created by a father for his daughter who was ill and in hospital.
Speaker 1:So there are lots of things that exist in society already because of disabled people and the point that I'm really trying to make the conversations that I think both of us had with folks that attended the conference is that in the cultural sector, we absolutely have so much we can learn, we can steal from other sectors. You know we often hear the completely fair point being made that the cultural sector is resource constrained. You know there is a skills problem, there is a money problem. However, there are lots of sectors out there who are facing versions of the same challenge that we are in the cultural sector, but have more skills and money to throw at these things. So we're therefore a bit further ahead in terms of working out what the answers are, and I think that really came through in.
Speaker 1:You know, aled's session we've already talked about. Richard Shotten, behavioural psychologist, on day two, had a really fascinating and useful session about how marketers and communicators can make more from understanding behavioral psychology. Craig Sullivan talked about how we can really better optimize our cultural digital experiences. As I've already highlighted, the session on digital audiences had perspectives from outside the cultural sector. You know, almost every challenge the cultural sector is facing has been faced elsewhere and I think we should perhaps, as a sector, get better at acknowledging that and we should get better at stealing proven solutions when they already exist. But that's maybe just my perspective, katie, would you agree?
Speaker 2:would you agree? Yes, I do. I understand so well the difficulties that arts and culture organizations face at the moment in terms of huge pressures on funding, and you know what that does to an organization in terms of being able to be innovative and be imaginative and all the other things that we've talked about. It's incredibly difficult when you're just trying to keep the wolf from the door. But I think what all of those talks and all of those people really illustrated is that it's the approaches overall that are the things that you can bring in that don't necessarily cost lots of money or even more time. It's just about sort of you know, the kind of well, obviously, the theme of the conference was curiosity, and I would say that it is about just constantly seeking to sort of learn new ways of doing things and read more widely, you know, than perhaps just looking at what other arts and cultural organizations are doing.
Speaker 2:There's a huge amount of good practice and kind of interesting approaches out there where you can just, you know, pick and choose. You know, for example, you say like about kind of behavioral psychology and things like that. So Zosia, our Substrat's content strategist, has talked a lot in the past about kind of microcopy and how microcopy can kind of nudge users into kind of particular behaviors that you might want them to take, like buying a ticket or subscribing to a newsletter, not in a duplicitous way, but just. It's just about being kind of clever with your language. So that's an example of you know the sort of behavioral psychology in action. So I think it's just that sort of being sure that you're reading as widely as possible and in doing so you know kind of learning what's out there that I could apply in my own organization.
Speaker 1:And to finish, here is a clip from that behavioral psychologist, richard Shotton, enjoy.
Speaker 6:So the point here is, if you're thinking about using social proof, don't just gravitate towards the largest number at your disposal. Think about identifying the facts about the audience, whether it's their age, their geography, their attitudes, their life stage. Identify something about the audience and then tailor your popularity message accordingly. Show that you're popular amongst similar people. Now again, it doesn't have to be complicated. Now, this is a wellness app called Balance. They don't just talk about their millions of customers, they tailor that number to the age of the viewer. So that's our first principle, probably the most well-known, but a very, very robust idea with lots of experiments behind it. If you want to encourage a behavior, make sure you emphasize the popularity of that behavior and make sure you emphasize that popularity in a tailored manner.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to this episode of Bytes. You can find all episodes of the podcast on our website at thedigitalworks, where you can also find more information about our events and sign up to the newsletter. Our theme tune is Vienna, beat by Blue Dot Sessions. And, last but not least, thanks to Mark Cotton for his editing support on this episode. See you again soon.
